Reda Belhaj Tunisia – Mohammed Saleh In an exclusive interview, we speak to spokesman for the Tunisian Tahrir Party, Reda Belhaj to gain a deeper insight into the ongoing matters in the country. Arabstoday: What is your opinion concerning all the events that followed the release of the film that insulted the noble Prophet? Belhaj: "The ill-mentioned film involves an attack against Islam and Muslims. The date of releasing the film on the September 9 was certainly picked and meant to provoke Muslims and hence the reactions were expected. People thus went out for protest and to express rejection of this insulting film. Concerning the US embassy incidents, I am surprised at the development of incidents and the accompanying deficiency of security. It does not make sense that a group of unarmed people break into this fortified castle. I think what happened was unacceptable to anyone, but there might be deficiency or entrapment from security agents. The respect of the nation must be regained because we observe some complacency from the concerned agencies. Security had the ability to prevent confrontations and America was required to apologise but the situation was reversed and it was us who hastened to apologise to the Americans." Arabstoday: What is your evaluation of the Troika government? Belhaj: "The situation is very hard, especially after the revolution. There is a tsunami of demands from all sides, due to the inheritance governed by falsity in all fields, especially development in Tunisia. Hence, any government at this stage will be tied by demands, protests, sit-ins, strikes and other problems that complicate the economic and social situation in the country. Besides, a year and a half for the current government is an unfair period and a form of political suicide. Under these circumstances and despite the good intentions and correct methods, this government cannot do anything of significance in the specified period. This is regardless of the fact there is no methodology for the government currently because it thinks rule is merely a matter of procedures. But procedures are a completion of the method and clear view of relations for example with the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, the African Development Bank, Europe and others. Honestly, this is not clear as we observe a race for power that brings about confusion that turns politics into compromises, settlements and procedures. The situation in reality demands courage in tackling issues parallel to patience from the people, but this is not the case." Arabstoday: You criticised the invitation for preachers like Amr Khaled and Wagdi Ghoneim to Tunisia, what was the reason behind this? Belhaj: "I criticised preachers coming originally from the Gulf because we are certain they come with a Gulf agenda to take over the revolution in Tunisia and give it a Gulf character. The livelihood in Islam through commanding virtue and condemning vice, calling for change and rebellion against oppressive reality, Gulfans do not want all of this because they work on establishing a religious belt to impose stability in the Gulf and get rid of political Islam that calls for revolution and unity. So they send these preachers to play this role. As for Wagdi Ghoneim, my precaution concerning him is only a matter of approach - but we are not against his visit to Tunisia and preaching. The methodology he uses in passing the message is very important because when the method is dogmatic and having a superior tone, it hinders the listener from absorbing the message and so does not adopt it. And it is very normal that a misunderstanding may result such as that used by certain sides to spread fear of Wagdi Ghoneim. There’s another Islam like that of Amr Khaled which is a “light Islam” but the most dangerous of these preachers are those who come from the Gulf who have enormous funds and (say that) demonstrations are prohibited, sit-ins prohibited, that someone who dies in a protest is not a martyr. But it does not make sense that Tunisian sheikhs will come and spread these ideas and it’s truly fearful and arouses suspicions. To us, we welcome all ideas that call for ridding people of dependence on foreign agents, from injustice and oppression at home. Otherwise, it’s truly a disaster but Muslims in Tunisia today have a good level of awareness, and the Gulf is playing (according to) an agenda that we refuse." Arabstoday: Following these comments, you were found to be in the same stance as liberals. What is your take on this? Belhaj: “We draw a straight line when there’s a crooked one and do not measure our stances based on results or intersections that may happen. We do not care about them, our preoccupation is that of the nation that we want to rid of many burdens, on top of them is dependency on foreign agents and by that we mean the west, then the Gulf that sold the [Muslim] nation for the least price and practiced a horrendous religious fraud on them. Its results were catastrophic in occupying Iraq and justifying it, and the catastrophes that followed. Islam is for the entire nation, and specifically for sincere people and saviours. Hence we want an Islamic discourse that adopts the causes of the nations and advances it to a boom. Others are spreading fear of Islam and want to take these preachers as an example but in reality they are dependent of foreigners, their agendas and foreign embassies. When a revolutionary project sells itself to the west it turns into a treason project.” Arabstoday: Some have fears concerning Islamic and Salafi movements and their call to limit some freedoms. Do you see a reason for this fear? Belhaj: “The Salafi movement has a fearful wing. It is supported by the Gulf as I explained and is a jihadist wing. The problem is with their understanding of the nature of the stage. We all want to free Palestine from occupation, and alleviate injustice and imperialism in all its forms. But in Tunisia and the different Arab and Muslim countries, there’s no need for this even by implicit reference. From our side, we adopt the view that violence in political work breeds corruption and hence, this issue must be brought back to its correct religious basis. The major issue for these groups is that they are not organised. In Hizb-at-Tahrir or Tahrir Party, we are not Ennahda and we are not Salafis. Our party is known for its view, we work in politics and Islam for us is a source of legislation. We do not accuse anyone of apostasy, we do not drive people away from religion, but we are a method for preaching.” Arabstoday: In this frame, Tahrir Party calls for the Islamic caliphate. What are your thoughts on this? Belhaj: “The caliphate is not an idea of the Tahrir party but it’s an Islamic idea. Ibn Khaldoun says it is not acceptable for an era to be free of caliphate. And as Al-Taher ibn Ashour whom they portray as secularist, it is a system of rule, not chaos. It adopts the interests of people, and so is not just a word coloured with the shades given by orientalist approaches but is an applicable model of life. We must end this fragmentation we live. The project of the nation is nothing but unity and Sharia jurisprudence. Unity in the end is the caliphate or general presidency. We are not ashamed; it is an honour to be the minesweeper that paves the way for the nation to speak of this issue.” Arabstoday: How do you evaluate your relation to the Ennahda movement, especially since the media mentioned a disagreement that may turn into a clash? Belhaj: “We are not enemies of anyone as an intellectual or political project, but we oppose whoever is in rule whether they are Islamic or otherwise based on their position as a caretaker and in charge of their people. We adopt people’s interests, show the corruption in caretaking, and mention the substitute which is nothing but Islam and this is a duty. If we talk about Ennahda as a ruler and an Islamic movement, we have no problem with them. We hold dialogue with everyone and guide the discourse. We are not one of those who can be employed by the media or politically.” Arabstoday: Consequently, you are active as opposition? Belhaj: “We consider ourselves within the nation. Even under the Islamic caliphate we call for, we would still question the rulers. Tahrir Party is not a ruling party, but a caretaking party so that the project of the nation will not collapse. We are always in the position to question, criticise, and change to the right direction.” Arabstoday: Do you call for reconsidering some of “The Code of Personal Status and women rights” chapters? Belhaj: “When we speak of a demand, our work becomes a patching work. It means accepting a whole system while making some changes. But we do not see things this way. Our reform is methodological and we have a complete view around women. They are asking us to change the Koran to adapt to the Code of Personal Status and we ask what is fixed and what is changing. Which is holy and which is human? Regarding the method, there’s an irredeemable mistake here. It is as if the code was the origin and you Islamists adapt your Koran to be in harmony with our code. They claim that every positive law is open for revision and not holy but today they practice holiness in the name of ordinances. Why all this exaggeration? If the issue is a sane one, why not propose it to the people to know the reality of what’s in the personal status code. Is there a ruling concerning adoption in Islam? Does a girl marry without a wali (male custodian) or not? A girl when she reaches 18 and practices adultery, it is not adultery because it’s mutually agreed. These articles must be brought up and discussed not under women rights as if the phrase is hijacked and owned to the interest of the western project. Women are honoured in Islam and they are scared to bring up this issue, that’s why they give it a holy aura and present the code as if it’s holy and not open for discussion.” Arabstoday: Within the last period, we recorded through the media the reappearance of Shiites in Tunisia. How do you view this issue? Belhaj: “Everything that grows naturally in any country, we have to consider its presence and deal with the new situation. I heard a very dangerous statement from a sheikh on a television program calling for expelling Tunisian Shiites to their countries. This is terrifying since Iran for example calls for expelling the Sunnis there and so do the rest of the countries. This is unreasonable, it’s dangerous and it’s a Salafi discourse enslaved to the Gulf. We have many disagreements with Shiites but a dialogue must be opened with them to expose and question them. This is what we call for. With dialogue, the true nature of each side is revealed and then society will judge them. Tunisia refused the Shiite stream along history yet we do not call for uprooting them but exposing them to the public and revealing the reality of their intentions.”